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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 10:26:00 -
[1]
After being away from the game for a few months, I spent a week flying around lowsec. Apart from simply not getting any fights, the fights that I did get, were, in more than 60% of the cases, against bait, followed by a mini-blob.
People do not want to lose ships. Baiting and blobbing is a relatively risk free way of getting kills, and with the current game mechanics it is the most succesful lowsec tactic. Unfortunately, it's also a massive deterrent for solo lowsec PVP, and although it is one of the most successful tactics, it is not sustainable. How many times does a player have to get baited and ganked, before he resorts to: a) wardeccing noob carebears in empire b) joining an 0.0 corp c) becoming a baiter himself
Lowsec has recently received massive boosts, both in terms of better rats (it's now easy to find enough BS rats to keep your sec status up in lowsec) and also in terms of the increased agility of ships, making it easier to evade lowsec gatecamps. I would've hoped that these factors would encourage more people to solo in lowsec, but it simply isn't happening. Are players unaware of these factors?
The simple solution would be for people to get their asses to lowsec and start fighting. More people in cheaper ships, meaning more available fights, would reduce the incentive for baiting, as I believe baiting is born out of a shortage of fights.
More complicated solutions would involve changing game mechanics. Slower warpspeeds, bigger systems, jumpdelay at stargates, acceleration gates that only allow x number, or x mass of ships in an hour, etc.
If the status quo continues, more and more PVP'ers will resort to empire wardeccing as a means to get PVP, possibly resulting in more and more carebears leaving the game, eventually resulting in the death of the entire game, as populations continue to fall.
c\d?
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 10:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Artemis Rose Fly a kiting ship like everybody else does and HTFU.
Sure, everybody loves engaging kiting ships. I might as well fly a Rook...
Also, HTFU'ing won't get me more fights. The core problem here is that there are too few people trying to get solo fights in lowsec, because of baiting.
Let me put it this way:
I'm not complainging about being baited - I am complaining about the effect that baiting is having on the game.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:03:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Black Dranzer You've identified a problem.
Propose a solution.
I'll post in Features and Ideas shortly.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: HeliosGal another one who only wants 1 v 1 casue he can fit his ship to ensure a won fight
Originally by: Destamon
I don't get it. You want to play the game on your term - solo. Others want to play the game on their terms. Now you cannot dictate the terms anymore so obviously the game is broken or dying etc etc. Wrong.
Sigh.
I don't mind imbalanced fights. I don't mind the fact that it is possible to bait someone. I mind that baiting has become the most popular tactic for getting PVP, and I mind because it is not sustainable. There are less and less fights to be had, because of this.
You can't change the fact that there are people who prefer to play the game solo. If the game degenerates into pure baiting and counterbaiting, there is no room left for solo pvp, at all.
It's easy to say "It's an MMO, play it with others" but the fact of the matter is that there are people who prefer to do their own thing, and if the game evolves in a direction that won't accomodate them, they will leave, eventually.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 11:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Bhattran CCP wants you to join a corp and 'play' with others, WTF is wrong with you?
Lots of things 
The fact of the matter is that I am not alone. Do a search for "solo PVP" and see how many hits you get.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 12:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Black Dranzer You've identified a problem.
Propose a solution.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1435978
That's just a start, might not be what's needed though, any input would be appreciated.
As I've said previously, the optimum solution is just for people to get their asses to lowsec and start fighting. More fights: less reason to bait.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 12:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kestrix
But why should I want to get my ass into low sec?
I am glad you asked! It is a magical place where you can frolick without bubbles.
Originally by: Kestrix And what would I be fighting for?
Glory, Schwag, Honour. (in that order)
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 12:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 I believe he wants our asses in lo sec so he could kill our asses, and thus, some how not fall into traps he's falling into now.
It makes sense to me.
Well, I don't personally want to kill your asses, I just want there to be ample asses for the killing so that people don't resort so rampantly to baiting.
Less baiting, more fights.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 13:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mathhew Kane Maybe it's because I was a Soldier for a little bit but "Solo PVP" sounds like the stupidest thing a person could do in eve.
Stupid? Maybe. Frankly it's the only element of the game I'm interested in. I can't give you any reasons, that's just the way it is. If I thought I was the only person that felt this way I wouldn't have bothered making a thread.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara Go find your own friends and kill the m'bater and his friends.
Riiight, which part of SOLO is so hard to grasp?
Quote: Or check out some of the less-traveled null-sec areas.
to do what, make bots safespot when I enter their systems? or circumvent lame 0.0 folk sitting on bubbles?
Quote: Or *gasp* check out W-space where, according to the 2010 Q3 QEN, only 5% of EVE's population resides.
And spend a week looking for a target? no thanks
Quote: the more people that either maintain subscriptions or newly subscribe to the game, the more gangs of 1+ there will be blobbing, baiting and otherwise ruining your precious solo PvP. Which is it that you wish? Fewer subscriptions and more solo PvP or a healthy amount of subscriptions and more folks putting ships at risk in-space?
You seem to be under the misconception that low population densities are essential for solo pvp to flourish. Baiting is as popular as is simply because it's the only way to get a fight, partly because lowsec is sparsely populated. If it wasn't the only way to get fights, it wouldn't be so popular, and many more people that want to solo, but don't due to baiting, would be soloing. In other words, higher population densities make it easier to find fights, which makes baiting less 'necessary' to get fights.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 15:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Qarth This is a MMO, so solo play is not really the point, now is it?
I can't believe how often this garbage is repeated. Just because it's an MMO doesn't oblige one to play with other players. If you're trying to win Eve then that's probably what you should do, but some of us just want to have fun, and for some of us that entails playing against other players, as opposed to with them.
Quote: You know it's a bait stop being an idiot and failing for it.
you mean all of it? or just the ones with massive flickering neon 'BAIT' signs?
Quote: Work on your social skills, make some friends and counter blob them.
Yes dad, am sorry dad.
Quote: So in closing, either adapt to the new environment or HTFU and lose ships and cry about it to yourself.
Totally, this is what I'm currently doing, I don't have any other options, apart from leaving the game. Again. But I'm not quite there yet.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
That you are not willing to make the effort to find solo PvP elsewhere when your favored location(s) have folks teaming up against you diminishes your credibility.
You assume that greater potential for solo PVP exists elsewhere - it doesn't. And if it did, the baiters would be there, because players looking for solo PVP are prime baiter prey. You also assume that I haven't looked elsewhere, which is not the case. Have you personally tried solo PVP in wormhole space?
Quote: Either your ability to change and adapt to other people's behavior is limited or...
I'm trying. The point I'm making is that game mechanics have made play evolve in a direction that favours baiting. Is this desireable? If things are "working as intended" then I don't have a leg to stand on, but I find it hard to believe that PVP should revolve around baiting and counterbaiting.
fake edit: I guess after typing that out, I kinda realise that that is what pvp in eve is about. Baiting and counterbaiting. Multiplayer chess. End of.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: search function Your search - frogout - did not match any documents.
No pages were found containing "frogout".
I've been away from the game and the forums for a while, and I honestly have no idea who this person that you think I am is. I take it that he wasn't very liked. Which makes me glad that I posted my thoughts with an alt. Good day to you Sir.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:49:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trader Gandry
Give me one good reason as why I would risk losing a fight if I have the means to make sure I win it.
Because 'winning' is empty and meaningless if you won because of bait and superior numbers, as opposed to skill. I fail to see what kind of satisfaction people could possibly get from it.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 17:54:00 -
[15]
@Shasz, whereabouts is your neck of the woods, if I may ask?
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 18:05:00 -
[16]
Originally by: stoicfaux Sounds like OP wants some kind of dueling system to ensure a fair-ish fight, or maybe a dedicated instanced PvP battleground or LFF (looking for fight) feature.
Hell no. If that was all I wanted Sisi would suffice.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:04:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aquana Abyss I like the irony of your name and this thread.
Falconalts are perfectly legit counters to baiting, imho. Purely to facilitate GTFO when you realise the blob is on the way.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.22 22:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: Its killmail's and killboards.
Came in here to post this, pleasantly surprised to see that it's already been posted.
People are KM *****s. I wouldn't be sad to see the entire KM system go.
+1
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.24 13:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Space Pinata
There is no skill in 1v1. Whoever has more SP / the better ship wins.
Absolute, 100% pure unadulterated BS.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.25 10:30:00 -
[20]
Originally by: HeliosGal if its one on one u want goto sisi. Otherwise deal with what the game is multiplayer
I am assuming that all the people, including HeliosGal and Space Pinata, who are assuming that solo implies 1vs1, are cognitively disadvantaged.
I do not have a problem with engaging multiple opponents, or even separating groups of people into smaller more manageable chunks and engaging those.
What sucks is when you've engaged someone, who would otherwise have been involved in a reasonably fair fight, and 10 of his friends jump into system, turning it into a gank. Even that in itself wouldn't be that bad, except that 7/10 engagements are like this.
Now sure, avoiding risk and getting easy kills are motivated by human nature, but the game mechanics also favour baiting.
I am not advocating that any of the following are changed, but these factors do favour baiting: 1) short warp distances 2) fast warp speeds 3) high tank/gank ratio
The odds of killing the bait and GTFO'ing in time are too low, imho, and that is why baiting is such a popular tactic.
In the meantime, flying kiting ships or using falconalts are the only options available to soloers.
Working as intended?
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.25 14:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: kaselo ...because you can be damn sure that lone drake sat in a belt "ratting" has 5 buddies with 2 falcons sat on the gate 1 jump away waiting to jump in.
In the good old days people baited with Drakes, baitbrick mallers and ruptures. These days, expect to be baited with anything.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.27 07:16:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Space Pinata
The point is: Tactics and Strategy are nonexistant in a 1v1.
a) you should play the game sometime b) Solo does not imply 1vs1.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.27 15:03:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Space Pinata
Name something you do in PVP that you couldn't learn from reading it in a thread.
Priceless.
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.27 15:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
Originally by: Space Pinata
Name something you do in PVP that you couldn't learn from reading it in a thread.
This is what makes me think you have no actual PVP experience.
Bears repeating.
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